Site Provision for Gypsies in Epping Forest

   

                 

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• (November 23, 2010, 07:14:21 PM)

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[CLB]

So, I walked home from the station last night and saw loads of people at the council offices, wondered what was going on, but had to rush home.  This morning, I look on the council website and what do I see...  A proposed plan/consultation to put 4 gypsy sites down my road (Thornwood Road), along with other numerous sites locally, which I now guess is why there were so many at the Council to protest.

I'm only hoping that this plan is something the council has to legally provide, a bit like proposed bricks and mortar sites, and then not much will come of it.  Whilst not wanting to appear too much of NIMBY, their type of vehicles would find it dificult to get down an unmade road like mine, and as we have to pay the Corp of London a wayleave for access, I can't see travellers paying this.

I'm spending my afternoon reading the consultation rather then working now!  I'm furious (and so obviously are many others)!

[Symo]

I too have read about this, if the plans go ahead it will be the death nail for Epping.

I'd love to know why most of the proposed sites seem to be in or neighbour Epping, what about the rest of the district?!

[CLB]

Once I've read all 90 pages I might be able to tell you!

I'm starting my campaign today (no doubt there is one already in place from the looks of last night) - I'll have to start being at home more often to find these things out!

Ben - no doubt the town council has views?

Claire

[goblin]

Hi,
I've just seen this post and decided to investigate.

The Council website page link is;
http://www.eppingforestdc.gov.uk/news/2008/traveller_and_gypsy_consultation.asp

Intro states following;
'The Government has given Epping Forest District Council a directive to provide an extra 49 gypsy and traveller pitches by 2012 and more after this date. Their idea is that in providing enough suitable pitches in environmentally-sustainable locations, travellers and gypsies will no longer make unauthorised encampments.

The official consultation does not begin until 4 November 2008 and will run through to 20 January 2009. Members of the Cabinet will see a first draft of the consultation document at their meeting on Monday 6 October 2008. Amendments to the draft will then be incorporated before the document is considered by the Full Council on 28 October 2008. The Council has written to all landowners of sites identified in the draft document, inviting them to look at the information and offering them the opportunity to attend a special briefing to discuss any questions they may have.


I haven't managed to get through to the draft document, i keep being sent back to the original page. Comments can be officially posted from 4th November so i'll keep trying.

Interested in the environmentally sustainable issues being reviewed ....and how they are judged....justified.

Goblin

[CLB]

Goblin,

Try this.

http://www.eppingforestdc.gov.uk/local_democracy/democratic_services/default.asp?modgovlink=http%3A%2F%2Frds.eppingforestdc.gov.uk%2FieListDocuments.asp%3FCId%3D295%26amp%3BMId%3D5203%26amp%3BVer%3D4%26amp%3Bku%3D22272926%24twn

[Macspur]

I'd love to sit down and have a chat with the people that earmarked these sites, just to see if any of these sites are near their own homes.

Also, once the value of our properties has dropped because we have a campsite on our front garden, does this mean our council tax banding will also drop?

Lets hope the local police are ready for this influx ot people, as they seem to have enough problems catching criminals in Epping as it is.

MacSpur

[Ben Murphy]

Dear All,

Thank you for your messages on this important local matter.

Claire, I know you have already spoken to my Town Clerk about this today and I have had a look through some of the questions you pose, but, unfortunately, most of which we are unable to answer at this stage.

I will happily provide background information though.  This decision has been coming our way for a few years now and EFDC have been fighting hard at public consultations to get the number of pitches (permanent and temporary) significantly reduced, which they have done with some success.

We currently have a large number of gypsy and traveller pitches in our district, most of which are in Nazeing and Waltham Abbey and each month we fight off a new threat from gypsies and travellers who move onto fields in Epping Forest.  We actually have a great team in place to deal with these matters, both within EFDC and Essex Police.  We can usually move people off of land within a couple of days.

In essence, the new directive has suggested that because we deal with gypsies and travellers so well and have such a good record of doing so and so much green space, we should have to take more.  I know Councillor Mrs. Di Collins, Leader of EFDC has fought hard against this suggestion, but we are now at a situation which we are highly unlikely to be able to change.

We now know what our options are and I, like Claire and many others, will be spending a great deal of time over the next few days getting knee deep into the technical planning issues involved in this development plan.

Because this is a planning issue and I sit as a voting member of the planning committee, I can express no further comment until the matter is formally put to the committee on Tuesday 21st October at 7.30pm.  This will be a meeting which is open to the public and there will be an opportunity for members of the public to speak, should they wish to do so, as long as they register their intent to do so with the Town Clerk at least 2 working days before the meeting.  His office can be contacted on 01992 579444.

We are all very aware of the threat this Government poses to our open, green spaces and the opportunities that compulsory purchase orders open up for the Government frightens me.  It is very much my hope that residents will stand steadfast in their belief that local people should run their local communities and make decisions locally, not central Government dictating what should happen to meet their targets and statistics.  I hope the suggestion of a campaign, whether it is for or against these proposals (or both) is established and we must only look as far as the St. Margaret’s Hospital ‘Plainly Say No Campaign’ to see how successful and important these can be.

If anyone has any further, specific questions, I will do my best to answer them, otherwise I would urge residents to attend our meeting on the 21st October.

With very best wishes,


Ben Murphy.

[Symo]

I am a big supporter of Mayor Murphy but it seems on this subject he has taken a typical political stance, most unlike him.

So basically its all Labours fault (don't get me wrong I'm very anti Labour) and that there is naff all we, the voters and home-owners of Epping can do, other than move of course. - So deal with it or move! I would be most interested in knowing if Mayor Murphy will move from Epping once it becomes besieged with gypsy's and the crime rate goes through the roof?

I always thought mass development would kill off Epping, I never saw this coming!

As for saying that Essex Police will be able to handle them, this sounds like an out-of-touch politician, most unlike you Mayor! - The Police will be totally overwhelmed, as the whole town and surrounding area will become a gypsy stomping ground. I know from friends in the force (Metropolitan Police) that gypsy's are notoriously hard to prosecute, as they have a habit of moving on when leads point their way!

Also, rather than brag about how you knew this was coming "our way for a few years now" - it would have perhaps been nice to express this to the residents of Epping, so new residents could have thought twice before they bought in to the area and existing residents could have lobbied Government before it got to this late stage!

A last thought, what is there to stop loads of gypsy's following their friends down to nice rural Epping and taking up camp in the forest or on farmland? - Once they're in the area more will follow, mark my words.

[Northern Monkey]

I don't see the Mayor's comments as polarised as your good self - if you are a voting member on a publically scrutinised body then people can complain if you appear to be anything less than angelic and impartial. Gypsy sites are a political hot potato and remember Romania have joined the EU club now, so we may have another wave to come yet!

So, Tuesday the 21st October is meeting day - anyone fancy going along? Looks like this is the time and place to put forward official views and objections. Could have a pint afterwards.

It might be a time saver to do some searching to find out what is considered a good reason to turn these sites down and see if we fit the bill. If I get chance I'll go look on t'internet.

Cheers,

NM

[Ben Murphy]

Symo,

I appreciate your comments and think I should probably explain myself a little further, as I certainly hope I'm not the "out of touch politician" you suggest!

My statement simply lays out the fact involved in this matter.  This is a huge issue for our District and I'm not sure any of us quite understand the far-reaching impact this could have upon Epping Forest, but I am working hard to establish that at this time (I have hundreds of pages of correspondence on this!).

I just want to explain this is the biggest issue I have yet dealt with since becoming Mayor and we in Epping Forest have been well and truly stitched up by the Government - speak to Labour Councillors or Members of Parliament - they will tell you the same.  This isn't me bashing the reds, this is me trying to help the people I represent, but it has been made almost impossible by new laws in Parliament and especially the European Parliament!

I also have to be particularly careful as to not publicly indicating whether I would support a planning application for these sites or not until they are formally laid before me, as if I do so I then have a "prejudicial interest" and can't vote, which member of the public will certainly want me to do!  Councillors have also received a formal warning on the language they use to discuss these issues!

What I am trying to do at the moment is engage the public and show them quite how huge this is and that we MUST stand together and not simply create petitions or share personal views on Gypseys and Travellers, but to deal with this on technical planning issues, as the Plainly Say No Campaign has done so well with the St. Margaret’s Hospital site.  I assure you that this is all the Government Inspector will consider and if I am not completely focused on doing this, I am letting the people of Epping down.  So, I'm looking at whether we will we have enough spaces in our schools, availability in our doctors surgeries, will the central line collapse, can our access roads take the addition etc etc etc.  This is what I am focusing on behind the scenes so that when we consider this matter formally as a Council, we can hit-back with facts and figures.

At this time, I am trying to do my best to fight against the frightfully unjust planning system that is working hard to completely ruin our semi-rural town.  Epping in the next few years is going to see enormous change.  We have the many new homes coming to the St. Margaret’s site.  We have the McCarthy and Stone elderly care home in the High Street, we have the Quality Inn Hotel turning into another care home.  We will have St. John’s School moving and another big housing estate appear.  We will see the Junior School relocate to the Infants School site and the potential of developing most of the top of St. John’s Road and perhaps even the Sports Centre and the CAB in Hemnall Street relocating to be replaced by housing.  The list goes on and on and that’s before we consider the thousands of new homes which are to be built in the surrounding areas, especially Harlow and the impact that the 2012 Olympics will have on this area.

So please don’t think just because I am unable to publicly say all the things you want to hear at the moment, I’m not working in partnership with several other agencies behind the scenes with a team to protect Epping’s future.

If anyone wishes to discuss these issues further with me, I am (almost!) always available.  My email is Ben.Murphy@EppingForestConservatives.com and my telephone number is 07782 224128.  If you can’t get through it’s probably because I’m talking to someone else about this very issue.  I have had about 100 phone calls on this now, as well as 40-50 emails and 20 or so letters.

Quite simply, I am trying my best…!!

Best wishes,


Ben.

[HazelG]

Can somebody direct me to some more info on the site proposals?  I have consulted the list of sites as per the Epping Guardian but there is not enough detail.  Are there maps marking out the proposed sites?  As a resident of Thornwood I am most concerned that everywhere I look and walk my children we will be surrounded by unsightly caravans etc.  I only recently bought a house in the village and am now thinking this was a huge mistake.   

[ThornwoodPete]

Hi Hazel, Welcome to Thornwood & of course Epping 

This is the link that i got my inofrmation from.

http://www.eppingforestdc.gov.uk/local_democracy/democratic_services/default.asp?modgovlink=http%3A%2F%2Frds.eppingforestdc.gov.uk%2FieListDocuments.asp%3FCId%3D295%26amp%3BMId%3D5203%26amp%3BVer%3D4%26amp%3Bku%3D22272926%24twn

Under section 8b  you should see 4 PDF files to download, The pictures of where they plan to put them in Thornwood is in the Consultation on Options - Gypsies 2, item8b file.

Hope this help,

Pete

[CLB]

Ben,

Perhaps you might be able to explain to us general public how the government has come to the figure of 3% growth per year for these sites?  The general population of the UK is apparently growing at 0.6% per year which is why I cannot understand these sites have such a higher growth.  Are more people 'becoming' gpysies?!

Can you please tell us what the Shadow DCLG's view on this matter is?
Thank you

[Macspur]

Can somebody direct me to some more info on the site proposals?  I have consulted the list of sites as per the Epping Guardian but there is not enough detail.  Are there maps marking out the proposed sites?  As a resident of Thornwood I am most concerned that everywhere I look and walk my children we will be surrounded by unsightly caravans etc.  I only recently bought a house in the village and am now thinking this was a huge mistake.   

Welcome Hazel. You have every right to be worried about these proposals in Thornwood. I moved here last year, and if the council get their way and put 32 plots in the village I will seriously have to consider moving. I won't bring 2 young children up in an area rife with travellers.

Which is such a shame because the main reason we moved here seems to be the same criteria the council use to house gypsies and travellers. Schooling, healthcare, transport links, shops etc.

Maybe we'll move to a field in the middle of no where next, we should be nice and safe there.

MacSpur

[Ben Murphy]

Macspur, I have to just confirm that this isn't "the Council getting their way".  They don't want these sites, but have no choice.  They have simply earmarked possible sites and have opened the consultation up to the general public to see if anyone else has any better ideas of where these plots can be.  The framework for this is, however, very tight.  The Government are insisting that the sites are near to schools, medical amenities, shops and transport links so the sites aren't going to be on a field in the middle of nowhere, as they have been previously.

CLB, I don't have the information to answer your question, but as it is Government related, have passed a message to Mrs. Eleanor Laing MP who I am sure will investigate and get back to me as soon as she can.  I have also asked her to confirm the party policy on this for you.  You are, of course, welcome to contact Mrs. Laing yourself direct at lainge@parliament.uk

I just feel the need to add that no decisions whatsoever have been made on this matter as yet as far as the Council are concerned, other than we will have a long, detailed consultation process and look carefully at each of the sites, as well as the overall impact.  There will be key opportunities for residents to explain why each site is or is not suitable.

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